Curse

Pugs Not Drugs · Mar 26, 2011, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Does anybody else agree that Mesmer heroes are not what they are cracked up to be? Looking at the skills alone, it would not seem that way, but Mesmer heroes are terrible at using them. For example

1. They have terrible energy management. Most Mesmer skills have high energy costs, and are not designed to spammed--they are conditional, and each Mesmer skill has niche situation where it shines. I often find heroes spamming Mesmer skills on recharge and using them on the wrong targets, which kills their energy and effectiveness, even with leech signet and power drain.

2. They don't use their AoE skills on mobs. This is a really annoying one, because most Mesmer skills only shine in AoE including Panic, Ineptitude, Psychic Instability, etc. I know I could micro them, but I really dislike intensive micromanaging. I would go play a RTS if I wanted to do that.

3. Like I said in the first two points, they also use their spells on the wrong target. Ineptitude on rangers, Panic on Warriors, etc. This really limits how badly they shut down the opposing team.

Does anybody else agree that (I never thought I would say this) playing as a Mesmer should probably be left to human players?

Also, on another topic, what do you guys think is the best team build for a warrior? I have been running 2 Mesmer (Ineptitude and Panic), 3 Necro (Sabway), and 2 Rit (SoGM and SoS) but I am thinking of replacing the SoGM and the Mesmers with 2 Paras and an Orders derv. Would that be more or less effective in your opinions?

Outerworld · Mar 26, 2011, 05:38 PM // 17:38

The e-management is fine and if your having problems with their targetting micro them.

Sir Mad · Mar 26, 2011, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Well...

The same can be said about most of the professions out there. Did you notice how your spirit spammers are dumb and won't recast their spirits as soon as they're recharged even though you have Spirit's Gift or the old spirits are out of range? Did you notice how your para or ranger with Volley/Barrage + Splinter Weapon doesn't target the enemy in the middle of the pack but the dude alone? Did you notice how dumb your average necro is at using Blood Ritual, casting it on a SoS who's using Spirit Siphon for example? Did you notice how the same SoS is gonna use Spirit Siphon on the same spirit over and over, even though it has zero energy?

I'm sorry, what I've just said is not against you personally. I do agree with you. But the thing is... Heroes < skilled players. There's a bunch of skills heroes can't use properly. However, heroes let you create a real team build, which is most of the time impossible with real players, unless you wanna use a cookie-cutter build (and even in this case, it's not easy sometimes).

Now, if you want your mesmers to be a little smarter, you have only two options: micro their skills, or call for targets. Sometimes it may be a pita for a frontliner, but heck, that's the game.

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 26, 2011, 05:43 PM // 17:43

This is an early April Fools post, right?

Keep focus on the larger groups. Heroes like to follow the lead of the main player. This makes SS bad as much as it makes Mesmer hexes good. Mesmers also have the best EManagement, next to Soul Reaping.

As for your party:
Warrior
3x Paragon
1x Orders
3x Support/Heals

Lithril Ashwalker · Mar 26, 2011, 06:05 PM // 18:05

all in all i think the energy management is ok with the heroes especially at interupting..power drain is awesome with my msmer heros and monk heros...old HB or WoH hybrid with PD=the sauce.

all in all mesmer heros play far better than human players becasue the AI detects skills beign used faster than a 14 of a second...otherwise human players have to have skeeeeelz to rupt such things...but it depends on what build ur using.

AndroBubbles · Mar 26, 2011, 07:05 PM // 19:05

My mesmer heroes rape almost everything in sight even without micro, but I'll occasionally place the first Panic when I'm fighting a group of HM eles or something. As for energy, I generally don't have problems with them. WNWN is amazing with the reduced recharge gained from FC, and PDrain does the rest. For the ineptitude hero, I give him Arcane Conundrum just as an addition FU to casters, plus he gains a lot of energy back from it, and for the Dom mesmers I give them Guilt, which is hard to go wrong with.

Wenspire · Mar 26, 2011, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Heroes target what you are currently attacking unless you call a different target or manually designate a target for them via micro, as far as I notice.

gremlin · Mar 26, 2011, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Have never regretted adding Gwen as a panic build mesmer since I saw her in action on a friends party.

I suppose it depends on what your asking the mesmer hero to do but without any micromanaging and a cobbled together build I am well happy with the loads of confused signs appearing above the mobs.

I will say that I have noticed sometimes the heroes appear to stand around doing nothing maybe this is an energy issue I will have to check.
Usually have her set to guard maybe I should put her more aggressive, Vek on the other hand is suicidal when set to guard.

Must be the builds I am using, unless their ai varies depending on the hero.

ShaneOfMach · Mar 26, 2011, 08:05 PM // 20:05

I set my heroes on attack instead of defend and just call out a target. Everyone just jumps on his ass.

And I would much prefer the near 100% success rate of Hero interrupts.

LifeInfusion · Mar 26, 2011, 08:15 PM // 20:15

1. Energy

Keystone signet = what energy management?

And no, Illusion, Domination magic builds don't have bad energy management unless the zone has no spellcasters (which means power drain/leech signet don't work very well and Drain enchantment is pretty useless). Either way you can get Waste not want not or hit Arcane conundrum with a few mobs, even if they're not spellcasters it's energy return.'

BTW have you seen the costs of elementalist skills before? Mesmer skills are nothing...
Wandering eye = 5
PI=5
Frag/Mind wrack/shatter delusions=5
overload=5
E-surge = 5
power lock/spike =5
both wastrel's = 5
mirror of disenchantment = 5
cry = 10 (used to be 15 w/ 20 recharge...)
shatter hex (used to be 15)
Panic, VoR, Ineptitude, Mistrust, Clumsiness, Diversion, empathy, FD= 10 ... of these only clumsiness pushes your energy, since panic is a free trigger on waste not want not.
Power block/soothing images/ignorance =15... nobody uses it?

Either way you can use auspicious incantation. It's great with stuff like Soothing images which lasts ridiculously long. Hell you see FD mesmers with AI + Deep freeze.

2. Targetting
Most of the time it won't matter (Panic, Ineptitude, Clumsiness, Wandering eye, anything + keystone). If you really need a targetted interrupt, lock the hero.

rkubik · Mar 26, 2011, 08:51 PM // 20:51

As another post said is this supposed to be an early April Fool's joke? I love Mes heroes. I wish we had another one and in fact I am very seriously considering merc my two mes characters so I can try some four mes builds. My advice is explore your builds/rune set-up and explore how you are playing.

The only issue I have ever had is on some my toons my Norgu tends to run ahead and aggro even though he is set to defend and his bar is exactly the same as my other toons. I guess the same can be said about Zhed.

chip99 · Mar 26, 2011, 09:39 PM // 21:39

i run 4 mesmers and its awesome

ShaneOfMach · Mar 26, 2011, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Psychic Instability is so much more hilarious than panic.

Nilator · Mar 26, 2011, 10:22 PM // 22:22

The only thing underwhelming about mesmer heroes is that you only get 2 without merc heroes.

Haggis of Doom · Mar 26, 2011, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Hero bars are supposed to be foolproof. If stuff is not being used correctly, it's up to the player to fix it (bar tweak, micro, or bar tweak + micro).

Not everything is fixable ofc, but Mesmer heroes definitely are some of the best heroes you can fit in your team.

AlsPals · Mar 26, 2011, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Funny thread. A little micro never hurts, and Mesmer E-management is neck and neck with Necros is there are spellcasters present. Locking targets and using your character to set up bottlenecks for the mesmers to exploit is key. In fact, I bout the 3 merc pack strictly for Mesmers and havent regretted it since. BTW, running 6 mesmers.

Daesu · Mar 26, 2011, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Mesmers are a little overrated now.

Thinking back, not too long ago after the mesmer upgrade, it seemed that I was in the minority recommending people to look into using mesmer heroes, but people were resistant to using them. For example,

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/m...html?p=5159935

Quote:

I don't have much to add,but the simple fact is that general PvE is very simple and it isn't worth carrying Mesmer's 99% of the time.

I've used them plenty just because I enjoy interrupting-but there's no valid reason to bring a Mesmer hero in PvE outside of wanting to because you find them fun.

They will never be competitive with necs and rits for a hero spot,only very specific places/missions/whatever will ever make a Mesmer a good option,general PvE is too easy to warrant bothering with interrupts.

Even if you manage to set up a Mesmer that shuts the enemies down enough you only need 1 backline,2 healers is always going to be safer then a Mesmer+backline,and Mesmer's aren't going to put out enough damage/utility for the added risk.

Quote:

They aren't totally useless,but they contribute very little to the team.

Interrupts aren't amazing in PvE,you're better off just proting a few things then killing the enemies-there's no need to go through all the interrupting..you're better off leaving your heroes to more productive roles that make the run go faster.

Quote:

I'll repeat myself-I LIKE MESMER HEROES,but they aren't good and never will be,so you need to stop trying to act like your build is as good as/better then necro/rit based hero setups.

...but granted that we could only bring 3 heroes then. Knowing what you know now, would you have included a mesmer in your 3-heroes build then? I know I did.

How did the community turn 180 degrees from "mesmer heroes aren't good and never will be" into the current complaint of "having more mesmer heroes using mercs is OP"?

AlsPals · Mar 26, 2011, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Mesmers are a little overrated now.

Thinking back, not too long ago after the mesmer upgrade, it seemed that I was in the minority recommending people to look into using mesmer heroes, but people were resistant to using them. For example,

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/m...html?p=5159935

...but granted that we could only bring 3 heroes then. Knowing what you know now, would you have included a mesmer in your 3-heroes build then? I know I did.

How did the community turn from "mesmer heroes aren't good and never will be" into the current complaint of "having more mesmer heroes using mercs is OP"?

Dont know who would ever claim it is OP, but I was running Norgu and Gwen before and after the update, and Mercs made it way better *if you micro* ala spike. For general purpose they are good too, but they shine when you make squads disappear.

Daesu · Mar 27, 2011, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlsPals

Dont know who would ever claim it is OP,.

There were many posts about it, for example:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...41&postcount=7

Funny that the community used to think that mesmer heroes are bad.

XaiXo · Mar 27, 2011, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaneOfMach

Psychic Instability is so much more hilarious than panic.

QFT.

I run 2 Mesmer heroes in my team, one Psychic Instability and one Panic. Complicate, Frustration and Cry of Frustration thrown in for the lulz.

It's rare that I see them with under half energy after a big fight, since they use Waste Not Want Not effectively, and both carry Leech Signet. Panic one carries Power Drain for extra interruption and energy.

As for targeting...Why aren't you microing Mesmer heroes? That's pretty much the point. Pre-cast Panic, and lock the Psychic Instability Mes on whichever caster needs to be on the floor for 3 seconds straight.